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    Maceo Musicology Webcast (Special Edition)

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    Mace2theO

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    Maceo Musicology Webcast (Special Edition)

    Post by Mace2theO on Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:18 pm

    This might get me in trouble, but here it goes:

    Maceo Musicology Webcast (Special Edition) - Artist Showcase



    At the risk of being banned, yes, I like Michael Jackson. Coming out of the closet here on the Forum so to speak. "Don't hate me 'cuz I'm beautiful"


    Why? As Maxim says, it’s all about context, and I was a kid when the Jackson 5 came out. Later, when I became a P fan, one couldn’t help but notice the similarities. Both are Black American, both were born in 1958 and both owned the 80’s. More importantly, they both re-defined what “cross-over” meant for a black artist.


    However, there is one key difference: MJ was an Entertainer who could do some music; P is a Musician who can do some entertaining. This is a big difference (to me).


    Setting aside all that King of Pop &%*$, it is enough that MJ set the standard for being a child star and graduating to an adult musical artist. Many had failed before him, and yes the Beatles had achieved it musically, but the teen idols (who were actually teens or younger themselves, unlike the Beatles) rarely made the transition. Justin T, George Michael and Robbie Williams all followed the model. We’ll see how it goes for Justin Beiber and Miley.



    Finally, of course, Maceo is fascinated by non-musicians who can make songs.


    So I felt nothing but dread when it was announced there would be a new Michael Jackson album, to be released next week. Posthumous works are very tricky - either you: 1) present the material basically as it was found, in its demo or outtake form or 2) try to complete the "artist's vision" based on some combination of instructions and intuition. Either way comes with its own set of challenges and issues.


    The preferred option for me is #1. Whether Beatles Anthology or Jimi Hendrix's back catalogue, 90% of the best "post" releases contained music as originally recorded. Jackson's This is It was presented as a rehearsal, instead of some new post-production CGI concert. Even living artist like P (The Vault, Crystal Ball) and Bruce Springsteen (Promises) choose to label back catalogue music as such, without going back to add instruments and present it as new.

    Perhaps the new album will offer more, but I really wish they would have instead put together a nice rarities mix of demos, unreleased and such, and just labelled as so. If the artist is not around the finish the music, I would rather hear what they were thinking, rather than some producer after the fact.

    Just my old man rant for the day




    btw, as I said, my MJish goes back to the J5. This is the J5 audition for Motown. As you can see below, Motown took an already funky little boy and reigned him in to be a less funky pop star.




    P on the infamous "Bad" duet




    Maceo will take whatever punishment is deemed appropriate by the other Mods for this post
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    CKJ505

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    Re: Maceo Musicology Webcast (Special Edition)

    Post by CKJ505 on Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:27 pm

    I am fully supporting Maceo on this Webcast. No ban for this man.

    Why? Well anyone who even tried to ignore MJ during his career were wasting their time. He existed in every corner of the media maybe not fully controlled by him but was in our face all his short life.

    As Maceo mentioned both P & MJ shared the 80's with others but they certainly stood out as ground breakers.

    Speaking for myself, I too grew up with him and no one can disagree (maybe a hand-full) that he was a very talented artist, singer, songwriter and an outstanding dancer and there is no getting around that.

    The point that he started out so-so young, looking back was his downfall. He lived the life of a child and realistically he never changed. Well, that's what the media have forced us to believe. What I personally think I will keep under wraps.

    I always liked his music with the aid of Quincy Jones and Rodger Temperton but when things went pear shaped at neverland...everything changed for him and more so the media, who fed off his failures.

    His demise was quick and overall sad. Money can not buy you friends. He had none.

    Even now and in the future, the media, the Jackson family, Sony and other leaches will make millions from his life.

    My rant.
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    darkcloud1721

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    Re: Maceo Musicology Webcast (Special Edition)

    Post by darkcloud1721 on Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:00 pm

    maceo, did u design the cover pic. I like it!!
    Why would u get banned? This isnt a prince only place!!! Laughing
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    darkcloud1721

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    Re: Maceo Musicology Webcast (Special Edition)

    Post by darkcloud1721 on Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:04 pm

    The song I'm dying to hear if it was ever completed Life with no pain featuring america's horse w/ no name music. There was a 30 sec sample played 4 a radio station. But that is all i know about it.
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    Mace2theO

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    Re: Maceo Musicology Webcast (Special Edition)

    Post by Mace2theO on Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:34 pm

    I couldn't design a cover from scratch if my life depended on it! The photo is from a rare book and I just liked it.

    MJ is not the 2nd coming. He was not the King of Pop (the Beatles were). He grew up around music, ended up learning how to make some great pop and figured out how to use video to add more. I think the whole King of Pop/Thriller-mania got in the way of the music, but it's what he wanted to sell more records.

    To be honest, I went nuts when "Off the Wall" came out. "Prince" came out the same year, and it was great year for pop....then Prince released "Dirty Mind" the following year and blew my mind...P became my guy ever since. MJ remained in my top 10, but lost the #1 spot that year.

    ...btw, the only person I would trust with any "post" production work on P music would be Susan Rogers...or NPG Vandals
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    Ymaginatif

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    Re: Maceo Musicology Webcast (Special Edition)

    Post by Ymaginatif on Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:12 am

    The NPG Vandals doing a Michael Jackson?? rofl

    Let me know when I have to come and unban you Maceo! Laughing

    As for me - looking forward to giving this a spin. I was small enough to be jumping up and down my bed imitating the guitar solo of Beat It ... years ago ... when I thought MJ was the real thing and Prince was just a dirty creepy looking copy of him Laughing (fool that I was!)

    I now have more podcasts to catch up with than ears!!! cheers
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    maxim9691

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    Re: Maceo Musicology Webcast (Special Edition)

    Post by maxim9691 on Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:14 am

    Maceo is ban proof... covers eyes for the rest of the post



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    purpleblues1

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    Re: Maceo Musicology Webcast (Special Edition)

    Post by purpleblues1 on Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:06 pm

    As I get older ( snd grumpier according to family Smile ) I am loosing the prejudices that clouded my youth.
    I can, thanks to a little help from my friends , listen to Beatles songs performed by the Beatles, I have managed to watch "Mama Mia" without throwing up, (slight nausea was observed during singing bits (( OK< most of it))
    And I've detoxed for a week, given up smoking,stopped caring about X Factor's hold on the nation and can possibly contemplate the idea that MJ might deserve a little respect...
    I was a child of the 70's , and was there to witness the rise (and fall) of many a "pop phenomenal sensation"

    But the hype surrounding MJ diluted the music.At the time , he was an elephant in the room. My co workers at the night club loved his albums, talked about him as if he were the answer to all ills, and how could I remain indifferent to his soft focus soul and pop laden rhythm and blues..
    At the time I was Mr Purist - Pop music might have taken over the world in the 80's, but to me it was all "fluff" and passed through my world in a haze of radio waves that caused few ripple in my life.
    I remember selling bucket loads of MJ cassettes, 7" singles and 12" singles, but never felt the need to actually listen to them.
    We were too busy travelling down the back roads of musical obscurity to notice that the 80's were happening around us - but hindsight is a wonderful thing and whilst I doubt that a whole album would satisfy me, I am prepared to open my ears to Maceo's guide to that which is worth listening to....
    And then I recall that "Don't Stop 'til You get Enough" was a MJ track and that it was funky like a train, so perhpas the osmotic absorbtion of popular culture did occur...
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    Mace2theO

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    Re: Maceo Musicology Webcast (Special Edition)

    Post by Mace2theO on Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:28 pm

    So do people who own MJ's 'Ultimate Collection' ever listen to it...


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    Ymaginatif

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    Re: Maceo Musicology Webcast (Special Edition)

    Post by Ymaginatif on Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:50 am

    oh oh - I hope I'm banproof too tongue

    Me - I NEVER listen to any music. I just don't have the time for it. I plan to pick it up again when I'm retired ...

    Sure I listen to it - but I haven't watched the full DVD yet - looked a bit very tacky and dry-ice-y to me ...

    PS Good thing I didn't take a picture of the CDs in the other corner ... yes ... more MJ there ...
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    Mace2theO

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    Re: Maceo Musicology Webcast (Special Edition)

    Post by Mace2theO on Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:02 pm

    bump review of new album by Jon Parales (who writes about P).

    I post less for the review, but for the ethical questions the entire project raises. As for the album, only 2-3 good songs

    I prefer the approach of the podcast (aka the bump!). btw, what did think of it?

    afro


    December 9, 2010 New York Times

    After Death,the Remix

    By JON PARELES


    ONE telling moment on “Michael,” the first full album of posthumous Michael Jackson songs, is a snippet that might never have appeared during his life: a backstage glimpse of a performer who always strove to appear perfectly polished.



    It must be an excerpt from a demo. At the beginning of “(I Like) The Way You Love Me,” Jackson’s staticky voice announces, “Hey, this is the tempo, and this is the melody.” He sings a line, then switches to vocal beat-boxing. As the fully arranged track segues in, he reappears singing the melody, unchanged but now hi-fi: a studio version of the song that was in his head. Like “This Is It,” the 2009 documentary of rehearsals for his50 comeback shows at the O2 arena in London — the ones he did not live to perform — it’s a chance to see the human being, the skillful and driven trouper, behind the superstar.



    Is that how Jackson would have released the song had he lived? It is, of course, impossible to know. That question hangs over all of “Michael,” which is the first full album in a seven-year deal between the Jackson estate and Sony Music, reportedly worth $250 million, to put out previously unreleased material, probably video as well as music.



    There have been reports that Jackson left behind hundreds of unreleased songs. Yet if“Michael” is any indication, his posthumous career will not be a matter of simply revealing what was in his archives, but also of transforming the material into a current commercial product: finishing songs he started while he was alive, guessing at his intentions and hoping to live up to his inspirations. He danced with zombies in the video for “Thriller”;now he returns, reanimated. “Michael,” frankly, is not a great start.



    The album hasjust 10 songs and 42 minutes of music, a half-hour shorter than his previous CD-filling studio albums. Jackson had been working with hit making producers like Rodney Jerkins, Lady Gaga's collaborator Red One and Will.i.am of Black Eyed Peas; none of those tracks are on“Michael.”



    The album doesn’t include “This Is It,” the song reconstituted for the documentary. It was, apparently to the surprise of the Jackson estate at the time, originally called “I Never Heard,” written by Jackson and Paul Anka and recorded by Safire. Nor does it unveil the long-rumored“Thriller” outtake “Don’t Be Messin’ Around,”or other songs attributed to Jackson that have surfaced online. What “Michael” does include is more reiteration than revelation. Nearly a year and a half after his death it comes across as a rush job — or just leftovers.



    “Michael”isn’t shy about exploiting morbid thoughts. The first words on the album are “This life don’t last forever,” in 'Hold My Hand, an Akonsong that gives Jackson about averse and a half before Akon takes over lead vocals. Yet recording technology defies the finality of death, and now there’s always the possibility of another remix, another arrangement. Particularly for a musician like Jackson,whose solo albums were slowly and painstakingly worked over, posthumous releases occupy an eerie artistic limbo. They are treasured as new relics from a voice silenced forever. Yet they are also suspect because the artist cannot have the final say. Pop careers are built, among many other factors, on quality control, on a musician’s instincts about what to reveal to the world and what to hold back. And Jackson, who had not released a studio album since“Invincible” in 2001, was notoriously perfectionistic.



    Now other people have sorted through the discards, the rough drafts, the fragments, the songs that could have interrupted the flow of an album, the songs that might be forgotten gems or embarrassing dead ends. And other people have decided how those songs will be heard.
    Jackson has started a stunning posthumous career. He was the best-selling act of 2009, with sales of more than 8.2 million albums that year alone. And the bigger the performer, the more temptation there is to market the archives. Elvis Presley's music has been reissued album by album, collected in volumes of hits, compiled chronologically, resifted by style and, lately, remixed as electronic anachronisms. Jimi Hendrix's unreleased recordings have been alternately ravaged (with original backing musicians replaced by overdubbing) and respected. Tupac Shakur's first four posthumous albums were million sellers.



    Even a finished album can receive a posthumous remake;Yoko Ono has overseen “Double Fantasy Stripped Down,” a radically different 2010 mix of “Double Fantasy,” the album she shared with John Lennon in 1980. Less extreme visions take place every time an old album is remastered. In the digital era authenticity is pretty much a lost cause.



    “Michael”has already had one authenticity crisis. “Breaking News” —yet another song about media plotting to destroy him, with a rhythm track like a warmed-over “Smooth Criminal” — was released before the album, and some Jackson family members immediately asserted the lead vocal was an imitation. It is indeed oddto hear a pop singer repeating his own name: “Everybody wanting a piece of Michael Jackson/Reporters stalking the moves of Michael Jackson.” Sony Music produced a rebuttal with statements from many producers and musicians who had worked with Jackson, saying that the voice was indeed his.



    In “(I Like) The Way You Love Me,” the vocals are unquestionably by Jackson, who released a different version — “The Way You Love Me,” now described by Sony as a demo — as bait for collectors in the 2004 boxed set “The Ultimate Collection.” That version incorporated the beat-box rhythm, a brisk double time, as part of its beat, and accompanied him with electric-keyboard chords.



    In the new version the beat is different, scaled back to a cymbal tap and a programmed hand clap, and the chords are plinked on a piano, making the creamy vocal harmonies even more reminiscent of the Beach Boys. At the end, as inthe 2004 song, ooh-ing vocals repeatedly change key, climbing more than half an octave. But now Jackson’s voice returns with lyrics, sounding suspiciously as if it has been digitally pitch-shifted. Regardless, I prefer the new one; it’s more transparent and uncluttered, a little more lighthearted.



    “It was pretty finished,” Jackson’s co-producer on the song, Theron(Neff-U) Feemster, said in a telephone interview. But he added, “The only thing to do was to finish the arrangement on the song — what instruments would go in certain places, what percussion instruments, what sounds we wanted to add.” In other words, Jackson’s archives are being treated as works in progress. “Michael” is far more a reconstruction and fabrication than a remix. Tracks were completed after his death by producers who had worked with him, primarily Teddy Riley, John McClain and Mr. Feemster.



    In some of the songs it’s clear the producers are eking out all they can from what recorded vocals Jackson left behind, stretching them with backup choirs, guests and cut-and-paste repetitions. (For instance, “Hollywood Tonight”— a song about a starlet that echoes “Billie Jean,” but which, according to Sony, was written for “Invincible” and reworked in 2007 — uses its entire first verse twice.)



    “Michael”is a miscellany of familiar Jackson offerings: inspirational, loving, resentful and paranoid. It includes three songs from a period of seclusion: four months in 2007 when Jackson and his family moved into the Bergen County, N.J., home of Dominic Cascio, a manager at the Helmsley Palace Hotel, and Jackson worked on songs with Mr. Cascio’s sons in their home studio. Eddie Cascio shares songwriting credit on “Breaking News,” “Monster” andt he hymn like “Keep Your Head Up.”



    Perhaps Jackson was homesick; he had Hollywood on his mind, reflecting bitterly on stardom. “You give ’em your all, they’re watching you fall,and they eat your soul,” he laments in “Monster,” which is punctuated by screams and breaking glass (like “Scream”). The singer is besieged by invaders, including the news media again(“Paparazzi got you scared like a monster”), until a guest rap by 50 Cent flips terror into belligerence.



    Al over’s affirmations — “You’re the one that makes me strong” — sound desperate in “(I Can’t Make It) Another Day,” a rock song that Lenny Kravitz wrote for Jackson, recorded with him in the early 2000s and revised more recently. There are also mementos of a younger Michael Jackson. Sometime before the mid-1980s he added lyrics about a cold hearted woman to “Behind the Mask,” a 1979 hit by Ryuichi Sakamoto's group Yellow Magic Orchestra. Now,inexplicably, Jackson’s long-delayed official version (completed by Mr.McClain) includes applause and squeals from concert crowds.



    The album’s delicate closing song, “Much Too Soon,” dates to the early-1980s sessions for “Thriller” but stays largely acoustic and approachable. It’s an unexpected companion piece to “Best of Joy,” a love song that promises, “We are forever” over acoustic guitar and twinkling synthesizer. According to Sony “Best of Joy”was one of the last songs Jackson worked on. Its vocal arrangements are elaborate, yet the sound quality suggests it’s a demo, awaiting rerecording that never occurred. It’s more touching without the gloss.“The moment was there,” said Mr. Feemster, one of its producers.“You can always paint around the moment.”



    Sony and the Jackson estate have two possible paths. They can serve up Jackson’s outtakes and archives as he left them, if indeed the songs are complete enough to release. Or they can continue what “Michael” has started,treating Jackson’s work as a digital apparition, as source material for recordings that work outside chronology and authenticity. Instead of pretending to divine his intentions, they could bring in the many producers and songwriters Jackson influenced — Ne-Yo, Justin Timberlake, Kanye West, R. Kelly, Usher, Britney Spears, OutKast, Janelle Monae, Prince, Madonna, Will.i.am, truly an endless list — and give them a chance to meet Jackson artist to artist, working with songs still unheard.

    The real Michael Jackson died in 2009. R.I.P. His musical artifacts can still be resurrected.
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    fkkScoop

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    Re: Maceo Musicology Webcast (Special Edition)

    Post by fkkScoop on Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:23 pm




    Okokokokok....I seeeee Laughing



    First of all...I never heard about Michael Jackson before.....cut....


    Again:

    First of all...I heard about Michael Jackson over 10 years ago...cut....


    NOW:



    Dear Mace2theO (aka Bill, Bob, William, MaceTheAce, MasterofthePOD...any many more)

    I like your Special Edition Podcast much!

    Nice Outtakes and Originals mashed up with your fabolous Voice and Well known EMC-Ads!

    Like your little storytelling about the Songs and enjoyed the Podcast from Beginning to End!

    I´m pleased to meet you on other places before and feel happy about your courage to post this music on the E

    While disregarding the and the possibility for a LIFETIME I can say:


    THANK U FOR THE MUSIC!




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    Ymaginatif

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    Re: Maceo Musicology Webcast (Special Edition)

    Post by Ymaginatif on Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:41 am

    Scoop - was that an ABBA reference?

    Are we trying to make this thread as excruciating as possible for Maxim? rofl

    Let's see whether I can squeeze in some Elvis Costello references too.

    When I saw this Music-cast, I thought I Want You. Since it's now Welcome To The Working Week, and I'm alone in the office (as Veronica (who's not really called that way, but hey there you go) is already on holiday). Oliver's Army can't stop me from listening to the King of Pop Life (he did a cover of that!). I Hope You're Happy Now?

    But I'll have a listen to the Secret Marquee gig first! cheers
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    Ymaginatif

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    Re: Maceo Musicology Webcast (Special Edition)

    Post by Ymaginatif on Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:02 am

    And now it was Maceo's turn!

    Just spent a pleasant hour listening to these MJ rarities! I'm not a die-hard fan, so I couldn't tell whether something was different rare or unique. I never knew Thriller was first a somewhat-cheesy 'Starlight'. And I enjoyed that stripped-down (or rather not yet-clothed) version of Billy Jean. Quite a few vocal-only tracks, which really highlighted the power in his voice, I thought. State Of Shock with FM was a bit odd I thought. It doesn't flow particularly well, and sounds really forced. Maybe because it's still a demo?

    Finally: thank you for not including any Paul McCartney collaborations! Laughing
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    Mace2theO

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    Re: Maceo Musicology Webcast (Special Edition)

    Post by Mace2theO on Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:21 pm

    Ymaginatif wrote:And now it was Maceo's turn!

    Just spent a pleasant hour listening to these MJ rarities! I'm not a die-hard fan, so I couldn't tell whether something was different rare or unique. I never knew Thriller was first a somewhat-cheesy 'Starlight'. And I enjoyed that stripped-down (or rather not yet-clothed) version of Billy Jean. Quite a few vocal-only tracks, which really highlighted the power in his voice, I thought. State Of Shock with FM was a bit odd I thought. It doesn't flow particularly well, and sounds really forced. Maybe because it's still a demo?

    Finally: thank you for not including any Paul McCartney collaborations!

    Thank you Y, scoop, PB


    Funny...who would have thought that Ymaginatif knows more about MJ than scoop

    The 'State of Shock' is a little weak as it is just a monotonous riff, but more enjoyable with Freddie than the released version with Mick. MJ and FM did another song together that Freddie wrote, but he used his own version for his solo album in the 80's.

    Do have 'Girl is Mine' without Paul
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    kezako

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    Re: Maceo Musicology Webcast (Special Edition)

    Post by kezako on Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:22 pm

    Me too, I like MJ, but not much than The (best) Artist lol!

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